Over the last few years, there have been some huge strides in the low power variable optics (LPVO) market, both in terms of quality and availability. Some instructors and other industry leaders have even suggested that cost is the only thing preventing LPVOs from completely replacing non-magnified red dot sights as the go-to option for defensive/fighting carbines. Budget-level and mid-tier LPVOs are getting better and cheaper, but are still usually lacking in visual clarity at 1x when compared to a top-shelf red dot like an Aimpoint. But how about a premium LPVO like the Nightforce NX8 1-8x24mm scope? Does it compete with an Aimpoint at close range? And at what distance does the lack of magnification in the Aimpoint give the LPVO a clear advantage? That’s what John Johnston and I set out to discover in this episode of “Stuff John and Chris Wanna Know.” We didn’t actually get the definitive answer we were hoping for, but I think we came away with some useful impressions.
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I’ve learned something today, thank you so much in helping me decide the type optic…😊👍
I couldn’t figure out how I knew the guy, John, but his voice was so familiar. Then I realized it was the ballistic podcast guy. How’d he lose all that weight!?! Asking for, er, a friend.
Holy crap John has lost a TON of weight!
Some police departments don't allow magnified Optics like my city police
No magnifier. Not a good comparison kind of… yes I know it's mostly just 3x but it's a more comparable setup.
I'm along the thought of 200yrd and in the red dot with magnifier areas with more open space 300-500+ magnified optic.
A good video no this is garand thumb.
https://youtu.be/LHgmsq6dSlE
Imo I think lpvos are more useful cause even if the battery craps out, you still got the reticle to back up on. You may not see the reticle in darker situations but thats what flashlights and knowing how to run your ar blindly.
Urban/inner city folks should use red dots, suburban people could use both, and folks in the country should use LPVOs. This is assuming that the average AR owner has a standard 16 inch barrel with a carbine/mid length gas system and not a 20 inch barreled full size rifle. That being said, I can totally see LVPOs being used in an urban environment, but the only scenario I can think of is overwatch during SHTF.
Wow how did John lose so much weight so fast??
You can always put a magnifier behind a red dot?
What do you think are the best scout scopes ? I've been thinking about the Leupold VX-3 Handgun 2.5-8x32mm, Burris 2-7x32mm Handgun Scope or Leupold VXR 1.5-5x33mm Scout.
dislike just because of bronies
A 3x prizm sight with a flip down lens cover is my answer. leave it covered inside and drop it down outside.
I love my 1-4x on my Ruger American Ranch.
Simple, be smart and live in both worlds. Slap on the Eotech and then the Eotech 3x magnifier and flip it out of the way if your'e up close and personal and don't need it. All problems solved.
damn john you lost a lot of weight
Why didnt you out the T2 on a higher mount to be on same level as the LPVO? Reticle and brighness matter, however not all manufacture daylight bright LPVOs are daylight bright….Inuse the term aimpoint bright….that makes a difference. So does height of mount, weight, eye relief, off axis shooting and barricades. High end optic doesnt always matter, reticles and brightness make it or break it.
Eotech with a magnifier?
Or your choice or RDO……
Both have 'operator beards', clearly legit.
For self defense purposes, the RDS comes out WAY ahead. You will almost never shoot at targets beyond 100 yards. The non-magnifying RDS is not only much cheaper and lighter, you will almost never shoot at targets beyond 100 yards. The magnification will only not help you, it will slow you down in acquiring closer targets (even at x1 zoom).
Get a 2x
Can you give me a ping Chris? One ping only please.
RDS is superior when you're worried about weight and possibly price. LPVO wins in all other situations. My "main" rifle is equipped with an Accupoint and my little .300 BLK house gun wears a T1. For a house gun, price is a bit more important for me, since if I use it the cops are going to hang onto it for a few years, and I really don't need magnification for that. Hell, I technically probably don't even need to put a sight on that gun, but…
If you have one AR and want it to do it all – LPVO. RDS is now the specialist option.
How do you both speak so many words and literally say nothing?
The scope mount looks extremely high, was that by design or because that’s the mount you had. Looks like you can’t get a good consistent cheek weld.
Long story short,
make time to play with both and pop a 3×9 Leopold on at the end of the day
A LPVO is not a red dot… It doesn't really have any of the red dot advantages at close range. I have transitioned away from LPVO optics for most setups. Now, an LPVO has some advantages, ones that mostly come with simply having magnification… It's just that for most civilian defensive needs and even military use, they are not the best choice for most of the time.
At close range inside 50yds, a RDS is King for speed, especially inside 25yds. A LPVO can work in the 25-50yd range well, especially for small targets, but a human torso isn't a "small" target. The limitations come in other ways many don't actually think through when selecting an optic. If self/home defense is your goal, then an RDS is the sensible choice, it can handle any likely, or reasonable, and even most of the low possibility plausible scenarios a civilian could encounter.
On a static range, those 3 gun guys can make an LPVO look great. They can run them very fast. They can shoot in some limited awkward positions and be fine… When they don't have bullets heading their way.
Even in a dynamic environment with lead possibly flowing both directions, if you have the advantage, an LPVO is likely to work fine.
It is when you are at a disadvantage, or the field is more even, and you are genuinely concerned of personal bodily perforation, that the limitations of a LPVO become very apparent.
"Oh I can shoot an LPVO in All sorts of awkward positions just fine." Oh really… Set up two targets, one a yard away, and another 15yds away behind the first. Lay on your back feet toward the targets, like the close target knocked you down, and attempt to aim and hit both using an LPVO… The close target is easy, no aiming needed. It's not possible to actually aim at the farther target through an LPVO.
A red dot can handle this situation.
I don't even think they are useful as a general combat optic for the average grunt on the ground, who is in a situation where there exists a possibility of engagement at various ranges, from up close to intermediate. They would work in some limited roles though. I think that a lightweight fixed power optic like a 4x ACOG, and a small offset RDS is a better general purpose setup for most infantry. If they are primarily only concerned with close range work, RDS is the way to go.
I can pretty much guarantee that I could throw off even a skilled 3 Gunner off their game with a simple paintball gun. Hand them a pair of goggles, and then let them experience a paintball from 10ft away, so they know how much they hurt. No padding, they need to feel the danger of the pain. Allow them to go to the shooting stage, and they are allowed their first shot unmolested. Then a few guys can start pelting their location with paintballs. The fear of getting popped in the face with only goggles to protect your eyes. Yeah, anyone who can run a 3 gun stage in only twice their average under those conditions has some guts.
I am not saying 3 gun like shooting and other fast paced training isn't helpful, or won't improve your shooting… Even in a dangerous encounter… Only that optics that work well in those situations are not going to necessarily work in a real life dangerous situation, nor will that type of shooting reflect the realities of a real world gun fight.
John, keep it up, sir! Lookin' good! Can't wait for the next episode of "Stuff…."